The bloody stories of Lithuania:
Lithuanian-Jewish relations


In response to my question "Have you discussed this with any Jewish people, Edis?", Edis wrote: "The short answer is yes, I have discussed this with 'Jewish People'. So have others. There are to my knowledge groups, possibly small, bringing together people originating from the same Lithuanian towns, trying to explore what happened, to look at the future as well as the past, and to face up to unwelcome implications."

Please tell me more. I would certainly like to know about these groups. I haven't heard of any. No doubt this involves only a very small handful of Jewish individuals, who would be ostracised for this by mainstream Jewry (a bit like "Jews for Jesus" are).

Did you do the other thing, Edis? Look up "Lithuania" on any search engine. I guarantee out of the top 10 matches at least 50% are placed there by the Jewish lobby, with diatribes about the Holocaust. As I said in my earlier message, there is no talk about reconciliation, only about vengeance, or, they call it "justice". (But only for those who wronged them: not for anyone else.)

I defy you to find me a Jewish posting anywhere in all of the billions of pages of the Web that acknowledges part some Jews played in the Soviet occupation. Try and find one. Got 48 hours to spare for a fruitless search?

But Edis seems to want to do a Chamberlain, or to use a more recent example, a unilateral disarmament stratagem. Show me where that has ever worked. You talk about the Balts "going into it without demanding bargains" and "avoiding screaming matches over entrenched agendas".

Well, honestly, why do you keep demanding that of the Balts and not of the Jews? Any suggestion that Jews should apologise and hand over war criminals resident in Israel meets with instant shrieks of "Anti-Semite!" But as I keep reminding all and sundry, I'm not allowed to retort "Anti-Lithuanian!" - because that term is not one of those that feature in the debate, given the agenda-rigging I alluded to earlier.

Edis says: "Nazi murderers are not my side." Quite right! Demanding that Bolshevik crimes be on the agenda is not to defend Nazi crimes. Why the hell should only one type of crime be on the agenda? What kind of selective "justice" process is that?

Edis said: "I can and do demand that both are treated as evils in their own right." Really? When did you ever do that? In all the BALT-L messages I've read in the past 2-3 years all I have seen is more like what you go on to say a few sentences down: "I have to say that since I take my position without demanding 'reciprocal consideration' it is not a factor that others may refuse to look at how other failures and crimes are ignored."

Well I strongly disagree. I do demand reciprocal consideration, and I would go as far to say that the Lithuanian Government should refuse to pursue any cases against alleged "Jew-killers" until Israel and the Jewish community condemn and hand over alleged "Lithuanian-killers". Why is that so unreasonable? Why can't people remember that 1940-1941 came before 1941- 1944? This is VERY relevant. In any discussion I enter I will not let this be dismissed with a wave of the hand as "irrelevant".

I simply cannot agree that what I am suggesting amounts to "moral bargaining". Again and again I ask, why are the Jews allowed to monopolise the agenda with no questions asked, and every time a Balt says, hey, what about the KGB collaborators 1940-1941 and 1944-1991, he is instantly accused of being an anti-Semite? What's with this "Emperor's New Clothes" outbreak? Can no one see that the Emperor is naked?

Edis, you say you find that "there are people of Jewish origin who can and will respond, who can and do reach out and try to discover the dimensions of the tragedies". I would love to hear from them. Wouldn't other BALT-L readers? And I would love to get some answers to my questions. Can you arrange it please? Let them speak, and let BALT-L readers judge for themselves. And give their views in reply.

Edis says: "With the greatest possible respect, some of the current arguments put forwards by Baltics partisans offer neither dignity nor hope, just the certainty of sinking deeper and deeper into a mire and in effect establishing retrospective justifications for the Soviets."

What? Firstly, I notice that in the English-speaking world one usually starts off with "With the greatest possible respectů" when one intends to insult someone. Well, with the greatest possible respect, Edis [and I mean that sincerely], I would never call myself a "Baltic partisan", because I have great respect to those real partisans (1944 to whenever) who sacrificed their youth and health and careers - and in many case their very lives - in the hope of stopping the red juggernaut from destroying their nation.

And yes, I certainly don't offer dignity or hope to Bolshevik war criminals who should be on trial just like Lileikis and Gimzauskas. And what on earth do you mean, "establishing retrospective justifications for the Soviets"? For the nth time, 1940 COMES BEFORE 1941! Am I saying "They started it!"? Well, yes, in fact, they did. Another matter that is not often discussed. And despite the pro-Bolshevik treachery of so many Jews, who had always bee treated well by Lithuanians, we (99% of us) nevertheless managed to resist much of the complicity in murders being offered us, and we did indeed find some extraordinary sources of strength and moral guidance at that time of huge fears, instant mortal dangers and little accurate information.

Finally Edis says something I agree with: "Perhaps we can today demonstrate to an unbelieving world that such things were possible. Demonstrate it by the way we meet today's fears and dangers, including the impact of mass emotive disinformation aimed at our countries."

They only way to fight disinformation (and misinformation!) is with TRUTH, all of it, fearlessly, no cringing, no trial by media, Hollywood and CNN. To do any less is to allow ourselves to be hoodwinked - and to dishonour the memory of those who died at the hands of the Russian terror apparatus.


In an earlier posting I wrote that, in my experience, Jews do not think of their famous people of the past (eg Gaon of Vilnius) as Lithuanians. I wrote: "Did the Gaon even speak Lithuanian? No one knows for sure, but probably not." Igor Sagdeev says: "Probably not. So what?" Well, so a lot. Here is an encapsulation of one of the main problems of Lithuanian- Jewish relations in the past. To Lithuanians, our language is everything. What would we be without it? (Look at Belarus: when the leader has no respect for his country's native language, is it surprising that all he can think of is to quickly be absorbed by Russia?)

We all know the facts of 1940. The majority of Jews in Lithuania were pleased that the USSR occupation had begun. Yes, they had their reasons (afraid of Hitler, etc) but the fact was they didn't care tuppence about Lithuania's loss of sovereignty. Did they expect this attitude to endear them to the Lithuanians? Just like today - their threats to try to block Lithuania's membership of NATO and EU unless Lithuania steps up its efforts to try Jew-killers - while totally shutting up about Lithuanian-killers. What kind of reaction do they expect? Is this the path of reconciliation?

Meanwhile, you don't have to delve in the events of 59 years ago to see the Jewish attitude to protecting their own criminals. Look at the Sheinbaum case: this Jewish lad murders someone in USA and runs off to Israel and the Israeli court rejects the US attempt to have him extradited. And if I dare to bring up the subject of Israel's treatment of Palestinians, that will generate accustaions of "anti-Semitism" "irrelevance" and "changing the topic".

As I pointed out before, the "topic", as dictated by the Jewish lobby and unthinkingly accepted by most of the world's media is: "Jews accuse, Lithuanians defend". (Read between the lines: Jews good, Lithuanians bad.) No variations on this topic are acceptable, certainly not the variant where Lithuanians accuse and Jews defend.

I have read much Jewish material for many years. I am well aware of the things they say and the mindset that causes them to say them. Many times I have read their own admissions that the Holocaust has to be used to maximum advantage for keeping up a Jewish consciousness in Jewish youth - especially in USA and other Western countries. Sometimes when you meet a young "Jew" the only thing "Jewish" about them is their eagerness to talk about the Holocaust; they know very little about anything else.

They have been fed on a reading/viewing diet of Eastern Europeans as monsters, who killed for fun, because they were nasty hate-filled people. Never mind any sober analysis of the very complex political and social conditions of the time. What have they seen/read except Hollywood movies and websites in which all the Lithuanian placenames are spelt in an unrecognisable mish-mash of yiddishisation, polonisation and anglicisation, such as "Eysheeshok" for Eisiskes. They don't even realise this is arrogant. When Lithuanians write (in English) about Tel Aviv, New York and Warsaw, we don't write Telavivas, Niujorkas, Varsuva. Why is it fine for Jews to constantly write about Lithuania with no respect for the Lithuanian names? The answer seems clear - if you don't respect the people, why respect their names? How many times did I read in 1990-1991 Jewish writers saying "Lithuania doesn't deserve independence."? Well, our language was never worth learning, our place names are not worth writing in the proper Lithuanian form, and we don't deserve independence or membership in NATO or EU. Is it any wonder they feel free to rig the agenda to their favour, to have all their spokesmen from Israel and USA wandering in to Lithuania and trying to tell the courts what to do?

Igor says he "cannot speak for the Zydu tauta - my partially Litvak blood is not Kosher enough". Interestingly, someone who tries to be reasonable is not 100% Jewish. Let's hear it from a rabbi, not from someone the rabbis reject. Interestingly, one of my best friends was Jewish - or was he? (He died an untimely death a few years ago at the age of 47.) His father was Jewish, mother wasn't. Even though he had a very Jewish surname and "looked Jewish", he was constantly being told by other Jews that he was "not fully Jewish" or "not a proper Jew". Let's face, anyone who is "fully Jewish" and "a proper Jew" would be committing social suicide in Jewish circles if they were to demand the extradition of Dushanski from Israel or were to suggest that yes, Bolshevik war criminals ought to receive the same treatment as Nazi war criminals.

Really, Edis and Igor, it's all very well to say lovely things about "searching without demands but with high expectations of common humanity". But the reality behind that is that one side in the debate (the side whose PR machine rigged the terms of reference) does keep making demands, and there are far too many Balts who keep acquiescing. You talk about "hope and dignity". Nice words, nice words. Where is there anything in the Jews' current behaviour that gives any hope that one day they will stop this relentless campaign of mud-slinging against Lithuania? And where is our dignity as Lithuanians? Are we going to allow ourselves to be pilloried and reviled until the end of time?

Posted by -gk-
Source: BALT-L

In the 'The bloody stories of Lithuania' read also:
Excerpt from the book Lithuania's Struggle for Freedom

Lithuanian Partisans War Chronicles
Vartiklis English page
Global Lithuanian Net main page